Full Size Vans
In a few weeks, The Salvation Army USA Eastern Territory will be making a decision on the future of our our full size vans. Over the last few years, there has been an outcry from the federal level all the way down to consumers regarding the safety of these vans and their rollover rate. These vans have been the mainstay of our fleet for as long as they have been in existence, 35 years or so. In Norwich we use our 15 passenger Chevrolet van for everything from picking up children, picking up food, soda, etc. It gets a lot of use! I don't know all of the details, but it appears there are new laws either on the table or forthcoming that requires vehicles that transport more then 10 children to built to school bus safety standards. This elminates full size vans from being used for many of our programs. I have grown up around these vans, my mom even picked me up from school when I gave a girl a ride home one day! I could have killed her!
There are some alternatives, and I will list the pros and cons for each
Minivans
This is the obvious alternative. These smaller vans are light duty vehicles and all but one that is on our authorized list is a well built and designed vehicle. I won't say what model that is! These would make things feasible, but would present challenges to our programs.
Pros
Low operational cost--economical engines/economy
Manueverability--very easy to drive
Cons
Only 7 or 8 passenger capacity
Light duty vehicle--could it take the beating? Designed for families not commercial use
Dodge Sprinter Van
These vans are designed by Mercedes Benz. Mercedes is a company within the Daimler Chrysler brand which is why they are badged as a Dodge. They are ugly as can be. They were built for Europe, and have a very European design. You can see them on the roads as Fed Ex or UPS delivery vans. They do make a 10 passenger model. They have a 2.7 liter 5 cylinder turbo diesel engine that makes it very economical. I am not sold on these one way or the other, but I thought they could be an alternative.
Pros
Very economical--diesel engine gets an average 22 mpg...amazing for a commercial vehicle!
10 passenger seating--apparantly the new standard
Mercedes Engineering--Mercedes makes amazing vehicles
Commercial Duty--could take a beating
Cons
Higher initial cost--several thousand dollars more than a current full size van
Diesel engines don't like the cold--would officers remember to "plug them in"
High profile would make them a sail in the wind
Full Size SUV
When I mention full size SUV's I am not talking about your friendly neighborhood family vehicle. I am talking of the big ones that used to be used in commercial applications prior to being a suburban fashion statment. I am thinking specifically of the Chevrolet Suburban and Ford Expedition EL (extended length). These vehicles are truck platforms. They are designed to have comfortable seating for up to 9 and be able to carry cargo.
Pros
Truck toughness--could take a beating!
Mixed use vehicle--could haul passengers and cargo with ease.
New engines make them very economical--new Suburban gets 20 mpg highway! 15 in the city!
4 wheel drive would be helpful in the northeast!
9 passenger seating--more comfortable than a minivan!
Cons
Higher purchase cost--however due to the high gas prices, discounts are sure to be there.
Slight higher cost to operate over minivans
Summary
Those of you that know me know that I am a car nut! I read magazines and study cars a lot. I feel that the best way to move forward with this if we do in fact get rid of the vans is to go with the full size SUV's. They are very spacious and could truly be a mixed use vehicle. Minivans are great! I love the one we have, but I would hate to see how they respond to being a mixed use vehicle that transports a lot of weight, whether it be people or cargo regularly. I am sure the transmissions would take a beating, tires, seats, etc. Minivans are currenlty designed more for families and that is evident by the seating and features currently offered in them. The Sprinter is unproven as far as I am concerned. My fear would be that officers would not maintain a diesel properly, as they do require different maintenance then gasoline vehicles.
The Suburban has been in production for 70 years. IT is a proven truck that can be comfortable and haul lots of food, toys, kettles, soda, and several of your average Home League ladies. Being that it is a truck, it could do these tasks and still shine for several years. I was more convinced when I saw that the standard engine has the cylinder deactivation mode that shuts down 4 of the 8 cylinders when they are not needed. That is why it is so economical.
What will happen? I have no clue! I am a low man on the totem pole and my voice is not heard. I will purhcase whatever vehicle I am allowed to and whatever vehicles makes the most sense for my application in Norwich.
What do you think???????
There are some alternatives, and I will list the pros and cons for each
Minivans
This is the obvious alternative. These smaller vans are light duty vehicles and all but one that is on our authorized list is a well built and designed vehicle. I won't say what model that is! These would make things feasible, but would present challenges to our programs.
Pros
Low operational cost--economical engines/economy
Manueverability--very easy to drive
Cons
Only 7 or 8 passenger capacity
Light duty vehicle--could it take the beating? Designed for families not commercial use
Dodge Sprinter Van
These vans are designed by Mercedes Benz. Mercedes is a company within the Daimler Chrysler brand which is why they are badged as a Dodge. They are ugly as can be. They were built for Europe, and have a very European design. You can see them on the roads as Fed Ex or UPS delivery vans. They do make a 10 passenger model. They have a 2.7 liter 5 cylinder turbo diesel engine that makes it very economical. I am not sold on these one way or the other, but I thought they could be an alternative.
Pros
Very economical--diesel engine gets an average 22 mpg...amazing for a commercial vehicle!
10 passenger seating--apparantly the new standard
Mercedes Engineering--Mercedes makes amazing vehicles
Commercial Duty--could take a beating
Cons
Higher initial cost--several thousand dollars more than a current full size van
Diesel engines don't like the cold--would officers remember to "plug them in"
High profile would make them a sail in the wind
Full Size SUV
When I mention full size SUV's I am not talking about your friendly neighborhood family vehicle. I am talking of the big ones that used to be used in commercial applications prior to being a suburban fashion statment. I am thinking specifically of the Chevrolet Suburban and Ford Expedition EL (extended length). These vehicles are truck platforms. They are designed to have comfortable seating for up to 9 and be able to carry cargo.
Pros
Truck toughness--could take a beating!
Mixed use vehicle--could haul passengers and cargo with ease.
New engines make them very economical--new Suburban gets 20 mpg highway! 15 in the city!
4 wheel drive would be helpful in the northeast!
9 passenger seating--more comfortable than a minivan!
Cons
Higher purchase cost--however due to the high gas prices, discounts are sure to be there.
Slight higher cost to operate over minivans
Summary
Those of you that know me know that I am a car nut! I read magazines and study cars a lot. I feel that the best way to move forward with this if we do in fact get rid of the vans is to go with the full size SUV's. They are very spacious and could truly be a mixed use vehicle. Minivans are great! I love the one we have, but I would hate to see how they respond to being a mixed use vehicle that transports a lot of weight, whether it be people or cargo regularly. I am sure the transmissions would take a beating, tires, seats, etc. Minivans are currenlty designed more for families and that is evident by the seating and features currently offered in them. The Sprinter is unproven as far as I am concerned. My fear would be that officers would not maintain a diesel properly, as they do require different maintenance then gasoline vehicles.
The Suburban has been in production for 70 years. IT is a proven truck that can be comfortable and haul lots of food, toys, kettles, soda, and several of your average Home League ladies. Being that it is a truck, it could do these tasks and still shine for several years. I was more convinced when I saw that the standard engine has the cylinder deactivation mode that shuts down 4 of the 8 cylinders when they are not needed. That is why it is so economical.
What will happen? I have no clue! I am a low man on the totem pole and my voice is not heard. I will purhcase whatever vehicle I am allowed to and whatever vehicles makes the most sense for my application in Norwich.
What do you think???????
posted by Christian at
10/31/2006 08:47:00 AM
5 Comments:
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Several years ago the USA Southern Territory banned the use of full-size vans because of the safety concerns. Now they are discouraging - perhaps even forbidding - the use of full-sized SUVs as well. Same reason - concern about safety and rollover issues.
A little over a year ago, my boss and his wife were in a nasty rollover accident in their large Chevy Suburban. They were ordered to replace it with a Toyota van, I can't recall the model off-hand. It's quite a bit smaller than the Suburban. My boss loved his Suburban, but he's gotten used to the Toyota.
If the Eastern Territory looks at what other American territories are doing, they may not opt for the SUV. If they do, it may only be for smaller ones. If so, your questions regarding transportation and durability may remain unaddressed.
I am fine with the minivan. We have a Toyota and it is great. I think programatically, we will take a hit across the territory. Logistically, it will be so much more difficult to transport people. That seems to be an American thing. The Army in other countries does not take people everywhere. Perhaps this in the end will take peoples dependence from us for their transportation needs. They seem to get everywhere else they need to go!
As Evie noted, in the South Corps and ARCs no longer can purchase full size vans. They are being replaced by mini-buses. Several Corps have in the process added to the mix an extra mini van or two for the limited runs (we should have used more mini-vans years ago rather than the token one for the CO's primary use).
Jonathan started driving the mini-buses at the Fairfax Corps three months ago when the Corps purchased its first three. Next summer they will phase out the remainder of their full size vans.
For larger corps, minibuses may be the way to go. I don't think in my appointment it would be worthwhile, as our 2nd vehicle is primarily mixed use instead of passenger only. At this point a 2nd minivan looks to be the most viable option for us. I am good at babying my cars, so the one that is used to haul stuff will just need more tender loving care!
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